On Monday, Vanity Fair published a bombshell story about Bravo’s Real Housewives franchise. Anna Peele’s gripping long read explored the inner workings of the mega-popular series, allegations that the Housewives shows have created issues with the housewives’ own mental health and alcohol abuse, accusations of racist behavior behind the scenes, and its various denials. Peele dropped by this week’s Still Watching podcast to chat with cohosts Hillary Busis and Chris Murphy about reporting her story, the changes taking place for production, and what this all means for Housewives lovers. 

Inside the Real Housewives Reckoning That’s Rocking Bravo

“I talked to current and former housewives. I talked to producers. I talked to people who worked with housewives and other Bravo cast members,” Peele says. “I can’t even tell you how many interviews I’ve done over the last months. But it was many, many conversations with many, many people.” 

A Housewives neophyte, Busis wonders what draws cast members back to Bravo. “You talked to a housewife who is anonymous because she’s still involved in the show,” she says to Peele. “She basically says, ‘Yeah, this sucks. I hate doing this. But what else am I gonna do?’ It’s not even Stockholm syndrome, because she’s acknowledging how miserable of an experience it is to be on this show. But they keep doing it and they keep doing it willingly.”

Murphy, a Housewives superfan, compared the franchise to a sport, where people have favorite teams, favorite players, statistics, and seasons. His theory? “People watch sports that are bloodthirsty and bad for you physically. And yet the glory that you get and the sunshine and the admiration and the love from the masses—it keeps people coming back. It seems like that’s sort of a big part of the Housewives.”

Peele agrees, noting that the housewives are well aware of the sacrifices that they’ve made to be on TV. “It’s like, I went through all of this, like, I have to get something out of this. I have to win,” she says. Peele then pointed to Bethenny Frankel, who sold the alcohol arm of her brand Skinnygirl for $100 million after gaining notoriety and popularity on RHONY, and is now calling for reality television stars to unionize. 

“A lot of what made her Bethenny was doing it on the backs of other people, right?” agrees Peele. “She says, ‘It’s kill or be killed.’ If you’re on top, that means someone’s on the bottom. I think grappling with that and seeing how it was impacting people made an impression on her.” Housewives may spend multiple years as recurring characters, which also complicates things. “You don’t want to piss off your employers,” notes Peele. “Or seem like a bad sport in front of the fans, because they don’t like that.”

“You can’t be a bad sport,” says Hillary. “You can’t be boring.” Murphy agrees: “That is maybe the one unforgivable sin.” 

But feeling the pressure to be interesting can have consequences. In the story, Peele writes about Leah McSweeney’s struggle to stay sober while appearing on RHONY, her 8-day stint in a psychiatric hospital, and her discrimination complaint against Bravo and other corporate entities. “I saw Leah McSweeney throwing the tiki torch, and it was so iconic and it was so fun,” Peele says. “But then when I was watching it again with this context of what was going on behind the scenes, it’s tough.”

Peele also describes a moment between Eboni K. Williams and her former RHONY costar Ramona Singer—who, according to Peele’s story, allegedly made multiple racially insensitive remarks that upset both Williams and a Black female producer who joined the series that same season. “Finding out what was going on behind the scenes sort of justified all of the things that Eboni was talking about on camera that some fans punished her for,” says Peele. On Wednesday, Singer was dropped from BravoCon after allegedly texting a Page Six reporter a reference to a racial slur while denying the allegations in Peele’s story (which she also denied to Vanity Fair). 

While Peele’s story is dark, she sees a potential for a version of Housewives that’s both entertaining and less harmful for the women it spotlights. Perhaps the franchise could find inspiration elsewhere in the Bravo Cinematic Universe: “When I watch Married to Medicine, it seems like it’s more supportive,” says Peele. “Frankly, it’s like they’re putting humanity above entertainment, and it wound up making the most entertaining show ever. It was the best reunion I’ve ever seen.”

You can listen to Peele’s entire conversation on Still Watching below.