At the 1991 Oscars, when a 32-year-old Annette Bening attended as a first-time nominee for The Grifters, she made a pact with her competition in the best-supporting-actress category: Whoever won would buy dinner for the rest of the group. Whoopi Goldberg ultimately took home the award and kept her word. Bening was already at work on a new movie when, in her trailer on set, a bouquet of flowers arrived with instructions from the Ghost star. The card told her where she was to meet her fellow nominees and when. The resulting event, hosted by Goldberg, forged deep bonds. “She gave us each a chocolate Oscar,” Bening recalls with a grin. “She had them delivered on trays.” Everyone also received a gardenia. “Pretty fucking amazing, right?”

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Bening has been nominated for four Oscars across three decades, a signal of her impressive rise and remarkable staying power in an industry that tends to, at a certain point, push its female stars to the sidelines. She’s now well-positioned to make that five nods across four decades—and with a shot at her first win—for her strong-willed turn in Nyad. Playing the long-distance swimmer who completed an unimaginable feat at 64 years old, Bening can claim a similar kind of triumph with this stirring biopic, following through on the most physically demanding role of her life at roughly the same age.

But it’s the uncompromising characterization that makes this a signature Bening performance. Diana Nyad is another bold, prickly personality that the actor imbues with humanity, humor, and grit. And it’s in keeping with a more recent tradition of Bening’s best work, from The Kids Are All Right to 20th Century Women, in that it’s grounded by her work opposite another powerful actor, in this case Jodie Foster as Diana’s bestie-slash-coach, Bonnie. You can identify that legacy all the way back to Bening’s first Oscars, in fact, and the show of support between actors at various stages of their careers.

Over spring rolls on a recent cool evening in Studio City, Los Angeles, Bening examined the significance of Nyad at this point in her life—as an actor, as a campaigner, and as an industry icon.

Vanity Fair: I wanted to start by asking you about the last scene in Nyad, because it illustrates the accomplishment of your performance. You look completely drained there, as Diana actually was when she completed the swim. Where were you, physically and mentally, when you filmed that?

Annette Bening: It was towards the end of the shoot. In moments like that, I’m not really thinking; I’m in some other kind of mode of wanting to just intuitively respond to the moment, having thought about it a lot. It was very emotional to get there, and I wanted to try to find that moment fully—seeing everybody there and knowing what it really did mean for Diana and what she had been through physically. It was just all of that conscious thought and study, for months and months—or how long, a year?—and then in the moment, it is not really thinking, it’s feeling.

You trained for a full year and came into Nyad as a novice swimmer. Given the amount you actually do on camera, did you ever doubt that you could do it—or that it was worth such intensive effort?

I had a couple of moments, like a real pause. “Can I pull this off?” I’m 60-whatever it was; I’m 65 now, so whenever I started. Part of it was my coach Rada [Owen], because she did make me believe I could. I just kept going for it and just kept thinking, we’ll figure it out. We’ll make it work somehow. I didn’t exactly know that I would end up doing everything that I did, which was fine, or loving it as much as I did while we were shooting. I also thought, how many times have you seen that in a movie, where you think, Oh, that’s not really that person. You suspend your disbelief and you say, “Okay, well, of course, that can’t be so-and-so jumping out of an airplane because that wouldn’t make sense.” But this time I really did feel like, “No, I’ve got to do this.”

In those moments that you’re describing where you were like, “I don’t know if I can do this,” what was pushing you forward?

I love a great challenge. Part of it is fear, and part of it is like, “Okay, so I just kind of have no choice.” Obviously, I did have a choice. [Laughs.] But I felt in my heart I had no choice. It’s an endeavor. It’s a challenge. And that feels good, giving that to yourself. I think a lot of us want to be in that territory and want to continue to be. So in a way, I was thrilled by it. In our profession, we’re always pretending to be violinists, or guitar players; it’s part of the job, but it’s definitely a mind game where you have to convince yourself you can do something, and you don’t know until you try it, and you would never know unless you tried it. We didn’t know. I certainly don’t know, but I just keep going.

Would you say that mind game has gotten easier or harder for you, deeper into your career?

That’s a good question. I don’t think it’s gotten easier. I have more experience in terms of dealing with myself, my insecurities, my fears, my doubts. I don’t expect not to have that now. Maybe there was a point when I was younger where I thought that would go away. But it doesn’t. As a creative person, you know how to put yourself in unknown territory, and you know want to be there, but it’s still uncomfortable. That’s what I mean by, “Oh, yeah, give me that feeling of, How do I find this? Why am I here?” I’m curious about it.

There is this paralleling of Diana in her 60s, deciding to take on this physical feat that has not been done before, and for you taking on the most physically intense role you’ve ever taken on in your career at a similar age.

For sure, without a doubt. I read a book a long time ago that was about how it’s not having doubts and fears—everyone has that, it’s normal, healthy, how the brain works—but it’s a question of how you deal with that. Over the years I can think of many times being on the set and being really scared of what I had to go and do, and what I had to be prepared to do when the camera was ready. I remember sitting and waiting to go in on a scene I was doing in Being Julia, something very emotional that I had to do. I remember sitting there and thinking, Okay, I’m scared. I just said that to myself. I tried to make it that simple. “Yeah, I’m feeling a lot of fear right now.” Putting it out there.

I thought of another one of my favorite movies of yours, The Kids Are All Right, watching you and Jodie Foster here. In that film it’s you and Julianne Moore; in both, you get the opportunity to play a very mature and very rich relationship between two women in their 50s or 60s, which is not something Hollywood provides often.

Yes, yes, yes. Quite frankly, I felt like I knew that if Jodie did the movie, she would make the movie because of her gravitas. She also knew Diana and Bonnie. There was something about that that was just so powerful. I just kept just saying, “Whatever you want, please, please do it.” We got to know each other and we really got on well right away, and that was delightful. It was a huge part of the experience. When we were actually doing it, as well, we stayed very much in sync. She watched out for me and watched my back. She’s like Bonnie.

With Julianne, we barely knew each other, and we’re friends now. We had almost no time. We shot it in under 30 days. Julianne said it was like 23 days, is that even possible? I don’t even know. But she said that. We literally met maybe two days before we just jumped into it. She’s a pro, and so she knows what she’s doing, and she comes with her game. She’s like Jodie. They’re not waiting for someone to tell them what to do.

During the strike, Diana started getting talked about a lot. I’m curious how you felt, with you and Diana both kind of having to see that from the sidelines as guild members and not really being able to talk about the movie. What did you make of the claims surrounding her?

I investigated all of that before I took the role. I wouldn’t have done the movie if I didn’t absolutely believe in Diana. Diana did the swim. There were over 40 people with her on boats around her. What I learned was that in every extreme sport there are so-called haters, or just people on the sidelines that for some reason want to take people down. I feel sorry for those people. I’m glad I’m not one of them in life standing on the sidelines trying to take people down. So yes, I felt frustrated during the strike that I couldn’t defend Diana. I can say it now: It’s unfortunate.

How did you experience the strike overall? I ask given your level of involvement with the union, seeing you on the picket line. In terms of the issues that came up, and the ultimate agreement, how do you reflect on it?

There was a lot of heartache, but I certainly felt in support of the writers, and I felt that the actors were doing the right thing. I thought it was unfortunate that the directors weren’t with us. I understand it, but I don’t appreciate it. I thought that it was a vitally important moment. What ended up happening was incredible financial hardship on the part of so many people in our business, and, of course, ancillary businesses and ancillary unions that weren’t on strike but had no work. Makeup artists, crew members—people lost a tremendous amount. People lost their apartments, their houses. So I really went to work with the Entertainment Community Fund, and we tried to raise as much money as we could. We ended up raising about $20 million, and we’re still raising money for that work.

The strikes at times got labeled “the Netflix strike,” given some of the issues on the table. Did you have that on your mind knowing that you were kind of on hold from promoting a Netflix film?

When I went to the picket line at Netflix, it crossed my mind. I mean, I know Ted Sarandos, personally. I respect him. I knew it would resolve, and so I didn’t really worry too much about that. I also know that I’m also working at NBCUniversal for Peacock’s [Apples Never Fall]; I don’t have any loyalty to any one company more than another company, and I felt that the grown-ups there also knew that those of us on strike—it wasn’t a personal matter against anyone there, it was a principle that we were standing up for that was a vital interest. Listen, it is show business, right? It is a job. It is a business. And we have to be cognizant of that, even as much as I would prefer not to be. We need those businesspeople that do what they do, and we also need them to respect what we do and all the levels of the craft. It’s vitally important that we are able to support middle-class workers in our business and that not everybody can get squeezed out.

You stopped production on Apples Never Fall due to the strikes and are headed back to Australia soon to finish it. It’s the first show you’ve ever done as a regular. How has the process been, given the disruptions and time commitment?

When we started not that far into it, we were dealing with the possibility of the writers strike. We had an incredible showrunner [Melanie Marnich] that I really am very fond of. Then May 1 happened; suddenly, that’s it, the wall is up. She’s a great union person, so she would not do anything remotely connected to writing. She’s a producer, so she stayed as a producer, but she was never on set. She had to stay in her hotel. It was heartbreaking, to tell you the truth. I was devastated, because I love her, and I loved the dynamics. We had to forge ahead. We were very, very careful about the script. And then we began to talk about—but we couldn’t work on the ending. Then maybe the actors would go on strike, and what if that happens? We were just in a tremendous amount of uncertainty. We were hit very hard by the strike.

When we got to the moment of truth and we went on strike, we just gathered all of our crew and said, “We’re terribly sorry, but we have to stop completely.” I learned something interesting, which is: They don’t have unemployment in Australia. They have a national health care system. We pay into our unemployment—although as you know, the striking workers could not gather unemployment. They could on the East Coast, but they couldn’t in California.

Yes, Gavin Newsom vetoed that bill.

Gavin Newsom famously didn’t go along with that. I find that reprehensible. I think that if we have paid into something and we’re on strike as actors, as writers, as show business people, then we have a right to collect our unemployment. And so, yeah—in Australia, we were concerned about our comrades there. A lot of people were out of work very suddenly, and it put our series on hold.

To pivot, we’re here amid this movie’s awards campaign in full swing. It’s not your first rodeo. When you were nominated for The Grifters, was that the first time you went to the Oscars?

Yeah. It was a gas. I went with Ed Begley [Jr.], who I was dating at the time, in his electric car. When we pulled up, he had to explain to the valet guy how it worked, because those cars, they’re completely silent. He’s like, “It’s off, right?” Ed’s like, “No, you have to…” I think push the pedal? [Laughs.] I made sure my parents attended with me. They sat with me. And in those days, campaigning didn’t exist then. It was just the year or two before. And it was a Harvey movie, right?

Miramax—yes, it was.

I remember being asked to be on the Johnny Carson show. That was the first time. I was too nervous to go and I said no. I kind of wish I hadn’t, because I’d have gotten to meet Johnny Carson and I grew up watching that show. But also I remember my ambivalence about being a public person back then—and I have the same ambivalence now.

So how did you experience the dawn of campaigning, especially given that ambivalence?

Very uncomfortably. I always felt very uncomfortable. I remember people calling me and saying, “You’ve got to show up at such and such an event because you have to pump it.”

Did you feel comfortable saying no?

Yes, I did. Like, “Sorry!” [Laughs.] I have four children, and I’m incredibly busy. And also just from an ethical standpoint. It doesn’t mean you can never show up somewhere—but there’s a line. There’s a line. You have to not take it too seriously—have a sense of humor, have gratitude, all that stuff which I believe in. Before I ever did movies, I was a professional actress and I loved it just as much. I had a taste of that. And I know what my life was like before being in movies and working in movies. I was just as happy. I was working just as hard. I cared just as much, and it was just a play that very few people were going to see, but it still mattered the same. So that’s a great thing to have. I know myself.

In a way, I feel kind of fortunate, because I feel like I have a window into another time. When I was on the Academy board, I was part of a group that tried to get the Academy to enlist some restraints somehow on the whole process of the financial part of it.

Can you give me a specific example?

Obviously with smaller movies, they can’t push people forward, and so it’s not fair. How do we try to address that? And there was some thought about trying to ask the Academy to actually track just the main trade papers, the main newspapers, and how much money was being spent by each campaign. Just to put it out there, not even make a comment about it. There was a group of us that thought that might be a good idea, but it was never even taken up.

It was a huge theme last year with Andrea Riseborough and her film, To Leslie.

Oh, I forgot about that! And it was a good movie. It was this spectacular performance. So what is the way to balance art and commerce? In all of the conversations about our business, it’s that. That’s true more so now than ever.

Do you think about winning an Oscar?

[Laughs.] How can I answer that? I don’t know how to answer that. I mean, have I thought about it? Yeah. I’ve been nominated before!

I can ask it another way. What would it mean to you?

I have no idea. I think that’s a fair answer. [Pause.] Because, yeah—we would have to see. We would have to see.

That’s absolutely a fair answer. The question brought a smile to your face, though.

Well, yeah. How could it not?

This interview has been edited and condensed.